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 Post subject: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:41 pm 
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At the end of a gig my band played Saturday someone knocked over the mic stand the H4n was on and it came down and shut off. I was using the power supply which cracked the metal adaptor on it when it fell as well as batteries that were running low. I had stopped the recording at the end of the first set and that file is fine. But it was recording when it fell and never properly stopped. Now normally i would think the files would hae been erased all together but there is over 4 gb of info on three files from the 2nd set. They say invalid file when i play them in the machine or try to convert them and when i transferred them to PC they say an error occurred file unsupported. It says its a normal wave file. i've tried different players and DAW software but none will play. Does anyone know of a way to recover this info? It seems to be there but not finalized. Thanks for any responses.


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:26 am 
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I have a few questions for you:

- Check the files on your PC, what does it say for the file size for each of the corrupted files?

- How is it that you have three bad files from the second set? Stereo mode should produce just one file at a time, which should become the corrupted file when the power went off. Did you make multiple recordings during the second set? Did you record for a very long time?

- What mode was the H4n in? What about sample rate and sample size?

.Wav files have a header at the beginning of the file that contains some important values, including how many bytes of .wav data are in the file. I don't know how the H4n handles this, but most of the header can be written at the beginning of the recording session, and then the .wav data can be written to the file on the fly, while recording. At the very end of the session, when you press Stop, the H4n has to go back and modify the header to indicate how many bytes of .wav data. So that value is probably wrong.

It might be possible to fix the header by editing the .wav file, but this is not for the faint-hearted. It means opening the file with a hexadecimal editor, which displays each byte of the file and lets you make any modifications you want. Then you have to inspect the file to find the errors, figure out how to correct them, then make the modifications and save the file.

There are some online references about .wav file formats, but they are very technical and hard to follow:

The basic reference contains links to other references, and can be found here: http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/form ... 0001.shtml

The original standard is here (it's not just for .wav files): http://www.tactilemedia.com/info/MCI_Control_Info.html

An updated standard is here: http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/Documents ... IFFNEW.pdf

The H4n supports the Broadcast Wave Format (extensions to the basic .wav file format), which is documented here: http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3285.pdf

A good free hexadecimal editor for Windows is here: http://download.cnet.com/HxD-Hex-Editor ... ?tag=mncol

I tried a test with my H4n and disconnected the power while recording (with no batteries). When I downloaded the file to my PC, it had a length of 0 bytes, so there wasn't anything at all that I could fix. It was only a short recording. I looked at another H4n file that ended normally, and I could see the typical chunks of data that make up a .wav file. But for it to make sense, you need to be a computer geek (which I am).

If your corrupted files actually contain usable data, I can help you with some of these technical details if you want to give it a try.

- John Santic


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:02 pm 
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John thanks so much for the detailed response. So here's what i can answer back to you. I notice that during long recordings in stereo mode the H4n will write at least 2 seperate files. Usually one very small and one big. Not sure why it does this. I started with a clean 16bg card. i transfered 4 files to the desktop. They were named ste-000 which is the one that worked. Thats the first set. I only stopped it at the end of that set. not paused. Then the next 3 are labled Ste-001,002,003. none of those play. i only hit record once at the begining of the second set and as far as i know nothing was touched until it dropped. 001 is 681mb, 002 is 2 gb, 003 is 1.6 gb. StE-002 is the exact same size as STE -000. Thats another weird thing I noticed. i would say the recording was roughly 2 hours give or take. So heres the other thing. STE 001 is the remaining part of the first set because the time modified is the same as STE-000. But that doesnt play. The time on STE-002 and 003 are the time it fell.

As for the file info. In the details part of properties the only thing different between the working file and the 3 non working is that there is no length and next to audio there is no bitrate. everything else looks normal. I hope this helps givea better idea. I am pretty good with computers and would be willing to go in and edit the info of the file.


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Ok, that sounds interesting. I don't know if the effort to edit the file will pay off, but I think it's worth at least looking at the file with a hex editor to see if there's enough information to fix any mistakes in the header.

About the file sizes, on page 137 of the H4n manual (the section about specifications), it says that the maximum file size is 2 gb. If you let the unit record for a long time, once it reaches the 2 gb limit in the file, it automatically spills over into a second file. So it looks like your first set was long enough to spill over into a second file, plus your second set was long enough, too. That's why STE-000 is exactly the same size as STE-002, both files were "filled up" to the limit that the H4n can record, then the recording spilled over into another file, for both the first and seconds sets. I don't know why STE-001 wasn't closed properly, because that should have happened automatically when you pressed Stop at the end of the first set.

Just for grins, let's take a look at the first file of the second set, STE-002. This should have lots of data, and should be nearly complete, because the recording had already spilled over into STE-003 by the time power went off. My general plan is to use a hex editor to examine the header of the .wav file. If it looks promising, I'd like you to use the hex editor to copy some of the header data to a response message that you can post in the forum (don't worry, it won't be too much data). Then I can examine the header data more closely to see what it looks like. If it looks like the header can be repaired, I will also later explain how to do it, although for now I'm going to leave out those details.

Go ahead and download the free HxD hex editor from here: http://download.cnet.com/HxD-Hex-Editor ... ?tag=mncol . It's a zipped file, so you have to double-click the file to open the zip folder, then double-click setup.exe to install it. Then run the program, click File > Open, navigate to the proper folder on your PC, and double-click STE-002.wav to open it.

What you see next is a whole screenful of hexadecimal numbers, starting with the beginning of the file. Each row of numbers consists of 16 bytes of file data, and each byte consists of two hexadecimal digits, followed by a space. I don't know how familiar you are with hexadecimal, but it's just another way of counting things. Instead of counting 0 to 9, you count 0 to 15. The number system uses letters in addition to numbers, counting in this sequence: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,a,b,c,d,e,f. The letters can be upper case or lower case, it doesn't matter.

On the left side of the screen, you see the "offset" value, which is the location in the file where that data row starts. The very first byte is at offset 00000000 and it counts up by 1 (in hexadecimal) for each byte after that, until the end of the file. The file might not have a multiple of 16 bytes, so the last data row in the file might not be full. On the right side, the program displays the text equivalent of each data byte. It's pretty common for files to have text strings embedded in them (including in .wav files), so this is a handy way of seeing the text without having to look up what each hexadecimal byte means. On the other hand, when you're looking at the audio data in the file, the text equivalent is not meaningful so it just looks like gibberish.

To navigate through the file, you can press Ctrl+Home on the keyboard to go to the first byte of the file, or Ctrl+End to go to the last byte. You can also use the Up, Down, Left, Right arrow keys to move around. Note that you can see a blinking cursor in the rows of hex data, plus you see a small box around the corresponding text character at the right side. Also note that when you use the left and right arrows to move around, the cursor moves by whole bytes. Whenever you modify data, it is modified one byte at a time, which requires you to type in two hex digits for each byte.

You can select data just like in a word processor, using the keyboard or using the mouse. Using the keyboard, you hold down Shift then move the cursor with the arrow keys. Bytes get highlighted to indicate they are selected. Using the mouse, you hold down the left button and drag for a similar result.

Once you have information selected, you can cut/copy/paste similar to a word processor, but in the hex editor we will not be using cut or paste, just copy. The usual "copy" command of Ctrl+C would copy selected information to the Widows clipboard, but in the hex editor, this just copies the selected bytes of data and not the addresses or text equivalent. This may be useful but not for us. Instead we will use an additional very useful "copy" command in the top menu: Edit > Copy as > Editor view. This copies not only the selected bytes, but also automatically includes the addresses and text equivalent.

Now let's take a look at the header; press Ctrl+Home to go to the beginning of the file. A .wav file is an old file format from way back when, and it uses a general file format known as RIFF. The general structure of a RIFF file is to have one or more "chunks" of data. Each chunk has a identifier at the beginning saying what type of chunk, followed by some other data that varies depending on the chunk type.

The first four bytes in the file should be the letters "RIFF", which you should see in the text area. Then there are four bytes of gibberish, followed by the text letters "WAVE", which lets you know it's a .wav audio file (there can be other types of RIFF files). Following that, my H4n puts a chunk that is a Broadcast Wave Format extension. This starts with the letters "bext", followed by a bunch of data for that chunk including some text strings. If you scroll down through the file, down around address 360 or so (it might be different on your file), you should see the letters "fmt " (note the trailing space) which is a chunk of data that identifies the particular type of .wav file (the various audio parameters). A little later in the file you should see the letters "data", which is the chunk that contains the actual .wav audio data. On my H4n audio files, the .wav data continues right up to the end of the file, there are no more chunks after it.

So I'm hoping that you see some or all of these chunks in your file, which would be a good sign. If you do, then I'd like you to copy some information to a response message that you post in the forum.

First, using Windows Explorer (the file browser), right click STE-002.wav, then click Properties. In the General tab, copy the exact byte count from the Size field (you can just drag the mouse cursor to highlight, then copy/paste into the response message). Then in the Summary tab, copy down all the audio parameters. If these are not correct, please indicate what sample rate and sample size you were using (for example, 44.1 kHz at 16 bits, stereo).

Next, in the hex editor, scroll the cursor down until it is a few rows below the beginning of the "data" chunk. Make sure the cursor is at the start of a row (press Home), then hold down Shift and scroll up to the beginning of the file, which selects the .wav header. Now use the special copy command, Edit > Copy as > Editor view. Paste this data into your response message.

Finally, scroll to the end of the file (Ctrl+End), hold down Shift, then move up a few rows to select a few rows from the end of the file. Use the special copy command then paste the data into your response message.

Well, I think that's enough for now. Once you post the response with all the data, I'll take a look at it. I hope the file is in good enough shape. It will take me a little while to look at it, and I'll get back to you with more information. By the way, I am on the East Coast of the U.S. and we are having another major winter storm, so if my power goes out, it could take a few days.

- John Santic


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:06 am 
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Ok John I'll give it a shot during the storm tommorrow. i'm also on the east coast. North of NY city. You near here? Thanks again for all the help. And even if it doesnt work I love learning more about this stuff so it should still be fun.


Chris


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Hi All,

New kid on the block (this forum), but old hand at recording sound for Film & TV (Since Nagra III and Telefunken M 15 times).

At the moment I am recording sound for a feature film, using the H4n as the main machine. We use two Transcend 16 GB SD cards, formatted by the H4n.
The "takes" are usually short - anything from 30 secs. to 1 1/2 minutes - so that there should be no problems getting/writing the sound on the card.
When the card is about a third full I keep getting "Invalid file" or "corrupted file" messages when transferring the audio to PC or Mac. File size is 0 bytes.

Any ideas?

Cheers from Costa Rica and thanks for a reply!


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Napoleon wrote:
Hi All,

New kid on the block (this forum), but old hand at recording sound for Film & TV (Since Nagra III and Telefunken M 15 times).

At the moment I am recording sound for a feature film, using the H4n as the main machine. We use two Transcend 16 GB SD cards, formatted by the H4n.
The "takes" are usually short - anything from 30 secs. to 1 1/2 minutes - so that there should be no problems getting/writing the sound on the card.
When the card is about a third full I keep getting "Invalid file" or "corrupted file" messages when transferring the audio to PC or Mac. File size is 0 bytes.

Any ideas?

Cheers from Costa Rica and thanks for a reply!


Forgot to tell you that I use the power adapter almost all the time - powering down the machine when switching power modes - and record at 48 KHz / 24 bit, using a Sound Devices 302 as a field mixer.


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Napoleon wrote:
Hi All,

New kid on the block (this forum), but old hand at recording sound for Film & TV (Since Nagra III and Telefunken M 15 times).

At the moment I am recording sound for a feature film, using the H4n as the main machine. We use two Transcend 16 GB SD cards, formatted by the H4n.
The "takes" are usually short - anything from 30 secs. to 1 1/2 minutes - so that there should be no problems getting/writing the sound on the card.
When the card is about a third full I keep getting "Invalid file" or "corrupted file" messages when transferring the audio to PC or Mac. File size is 0 bytes.

Any ideas?

Cheers from Costa Rica and thanks for a reply!

I don't know what the problem is, but here are a few comments:

- It's possible the card might be bad, in a particular section, so that when the card fills up to that point, files get corrupted.

- It's possible that recording many short files on a 16-gb card might eventually fill up the directory space on the card. This is not supposed to happen, even using FAT32, but the H4n is not as powerful and flexible as a PC, so it might have limitations that you wouldn't experience on a PC.

For example, if a typical take is about 1 minute, a stereo .wav file would be about 17 mb using your setup (2 tracks x 48,000 samples/sec x 3 bytes/sample x 60 sec = 17.28 mb). A 16 gb card could hold nearly a thousand files, so a one-third full card would have about 300 files. This doesn't sound like a lot, but it might be more than the H4n can handle.

If you are recording in Stereo mode, there are 10 different folders available on the card, so try using more than one folder to see if you can hold more files on the card.

- Over time, it might be possible for the free space on the big card to become excessively fragmented. Again, this shouldn't cause a problem (other than taking longer to hunt for free clusters), but the H4n might have limitations that a PC doesn't. Hook up the H4n to a PC using USB storage mode and then right-click on the drive, click Properties, click Tools, and ask for a fragmentation report.

- Also, while you are hooked up to the PC, run the Error-checking tool from the same Tools page to see if it finds any problems with the card file system. You can get a more descriptive report if you run the chkdsk utility in a command prompt window. Click Start > All Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt, then switch to the H4n "drive" (if drive G, enter "g:"), then enter chkdsk and see what it says.

- John Santic


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:45 am 
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Hi John,

Thank you very much for your prompt and extensive answer!

At the moment I am in the middle of production - night shoot at a lake this evening - so I don't have much time to do the reports (defrag / chkdsk / properties / etc.) but will run them over the weekend, as suggested by you.
I have been using successive folders previously in another production, and the effect is the same. It does not matter where I put the files (or let the H4n record them) I still am getting corrupted ones ever so often. In the past production it was 9 out of almost 600 files.
At the moment I am reformatting one 16 GB and one 1 GB SD card each time I start a day of recording. No corrupted files so far.

I've read your long comment on this topic about recuperating lost / corrupted files, but that is beyond my means of computing.

Will let you know more when I am done checking the cards.

Saludos from sunny Costa Rica!

Napoleon


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:15 pm 
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Hi Napoleon,

I think it's a good idea to reformat the cards like you're doing, to eliminate any formatting problems that might creep in.

I thought of another comment:

- It looks like you are powering the unit from the AC adapter a lot. Do you always keep a set of good batteries inside the unit, too? The "invalid file" symptom could be caused by a momentary loss of AC power, but if you have good batteries in the unit, it should automatically switch over to the batteries and keep running without a problem.

I also found a couple of comments from other posts in the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12937&view=previous A person had a similar "invalid file" problem with an H2. Look near the end for a response on how a Mac might write special system files to folders on the card which might confuse the recorder software.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14022 Another person notes that if you are making a recording and turn off the H4n using its power switch without first pressing Stop, the file gets messed up.

- John Santic


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:47 am 
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Okay John I got around to doing this. So the first thing I see different than what you wrote is that 4 bytes after RIFF i dont see wave.

For the properties of Ste-002 next to Size is (2,146,468,750 bytes) next to size on disk is (2,146,471,936 bytes)

Now By copying Summary Tab do you mean the details tab? Like I said earlier the difference here is that there is no length info or bit rate info compared to the halthy files. I was using the 96 / 24 setting for this. If this is not the area you were asking about please explain.

For the next part i cannot find the "data chunk part" This is so long. It took me an hour of scrolling to try to find anything that resembled what you were looking for. I gave up and tried the search function. I get no return for text string "data" or "wave". When i type Riff it goes to the first line and then F3 jumps to the middle which is between parts with no information. By no information I mean all ff and yy with two dots above it. I tried to copy the way you said the whole thing so maybe you could see something I'm missing and it says exporting and starts with a time of 1 hour 30 mins and keeps expanding higher and higher. If you think there is a better way to do this please let me know. Otherwise i think this file is way to big to work with. By the way the last line number is 7FFO8380. That give you an idea how big this is. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:37 pm 
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Hi Chris,

I'm sorry the file gave you so much trouble. I was hoping that the .wav file header would be present, but apparently it is not, so searching for it has turned into an exercise in futility for you.

Here's what we can do. Open STE-002.wav in the hex editor, hold down Shift, then use the down arrow key to scroll down to offset 00000500. This will select the beginning of the file where the header should go. Now use the special copy command, Edit > Copy as > Editor view, then paste this data into a response message in the forum.

I'll look at the data to see if a header can be added, then I'll let you know.

If we can't get this file to work, perhaps we can get STE-001.wav to work, so you would at least have all the files from your first set.

- John Santic


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:15 pm 
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I have heard that you can use audio editing software, Audacity etc. , to open these corrupted files by opening them as "Raw audio". This would be a choice in the open file dialog. There's parameters that need to be adjusted so that the software can figure out how to reclaim the file. I have done this and it works.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:52 pm 
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That's a great idea, Bill, I didn't know Audacity could do that. I just tried it and it worked great!

Hey Chris, if you don't have Audacity, download it from here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ then install it.

The normal way to load an audio file into Audacity is to use the typical "File > Open" command. But they have another way to read in a file in case the header is damaged or missing. This uses the "Project > Import Raw Data" command. The next step is to select one of your damaged files in the dialog box that opens.

If another dialog box opens and asks for audio parameters, here are some suggestions based on what you have already mentioned:

- Signed 24-bit PCM
- Little-endian [this means the audio data in the file is least-significant-byte first]
- 2 Channels (Stereo)
- Start offset = 910 [this is the normal size of an H4n header, you can also try 0]
- Amount to import = 100%
- Sample rate = 96000

After you click "Import", Audacity reads in the file. Then you can try playing it. If it sounds OK, use the command "File > Export as WAV" and save it under a different file name.

You may need to edit the file to remove some noise at the beginning or end of the file, because the file was not properly closed by the H4n. As you have already discovered, there is junk at the beginning of the file instead of a valid .wav file header. If Audacity imports this junk as raw audio, it will sound like weird noise which should be removed. You would do this using the normal Audacity audio editing commands, basically selecting the noise on the waveform display then pressing Delete. The last part of the file may be incomplete or may contain spurious audio data, since the H4n didn't get a chance to flush the audio buffers to the file and close the file properly.

- John Santic


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Thats a great piece of info to know. I've been using audacity for a long time and never paid attention to that function. The bad news John is that its giving me mixed results. I tried ste 001 and 002 with the base settings it has there and all i got was hiss. Then I tried Ste 003 which is a gig and a half with the settings exactly like you said and got 5 seconds static 5 seconds clean audio from the show and then the rest of the file is flatline no sound but fills up to about 40 minutes. And on top of everything John I recorded a rehershal last night as a 4 trk recording and stopped it at the end and waited to shut it off and when I copied the files to my desktop they look normal (1.5gb) and when you play them it just sits there without playing or any sound. When I try to play them from the H4n there is no file that even shows up. So now I'm nervous. I'm going to do a test tonight. The only thing I can think of is that the Card i'm using is a knockoff 16gb I got from Hong Kong on ebay for about $20. Maybe this card isnt that good. In the mean time I'm gonna keep on trying different configs to see if the file will play in audacity. John do you have to open the raw file exactly as it was recorded. Would other settings possibly open this the right way. By the way the static i mixed with sounds of people talking at the gig.


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:49 pm 
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John i may be on to something but not 100% I formatted the card and took it to record an open jam I was playing in. It recorded about 30 minutes fine. Then I stopped and it was fine. Recorded another 35 minutes and stopped normal. When I listened back the first recording was fine. The second one about halfway through went to a loud hiss. Like someone blowing into the mic. You could faintly hear music but mostly static and a few breaks of clean audio. It did this till the end of the recording. So my theory now is a that the card is fine up to a point and then there's trouble. That would explain why the last part of the first set of my original problem was invalid and each one after that. And also when i recorded the last rehershal and had no audio the old bad files were still on the the card. I will do some more tests. Does this sound possible at all?


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 Post subject: Re: H4n "invalid Files"
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:45 am 
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I have experienced a similar problem, but with an mp3 file.
Last Saturday I recorded a piano player at a party ... I did a volume check, just set the recorder up and let it run I think for 30 minutes or so - it may have been longer - ...
Yesterday I connected the Zoom to my iPOD dock and played all the tunes - sounded great -
I then connected the Zoom to my PC to D/L the song files ...
I've noticed that the first recording of any 'session' starts with a '.000' extension ... I played that and it was my volume test track so I deleted it ... I then D/L all the tracks to a folder on the PC ...
When I went to play the piano player's file I got an "Invalid File" message ... the track was recorded as an .mp3 as were all the others ... the rest played fine, but not the first one ?!?
I went to play the file on the Zoom and got the same message ... so now I cannot access this file ...
I can only hope the 'fix' is easier than anything I've been reading above, because that is WAY out of my league... :gosh:
t. 8)


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