Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

The R8R24PatternEditor will be released soon.

This version can edit patterns from the Zoom R24 and the new Zoom R8 recorder.

In addition can old patterns from the HD8, HD16, MRS Series, PS04 and PS02 be loaded and converted into R8 / R24 patterns.

The editor is available since today!

Armin, I see the option to import from MRS8, HD, MIDI, etc., and that's great, but does the R8/24 Pattern Editor also allow for patterns to be saved/exported as midi files?

thanks

The current version can only save in Zoom R8 / R24 format.

Import formats are MIDI, PS02, PS04, MRS, HD, R8, R24

Armin, thanks for the feedback. I have a few more questions as I'm trying to nail down a few things:

1) If I have a very large and long MIDI file, assuming it's under the limit of 99 measures for a single pattern, will it import to the R8/R24 drum pattern format as a single rather long pattern? If yes, that's cool because it avoids the track eating shortcomings of the R24 drum machine when using the pattern sequencer approach!

2) If yes to the above: does your editor do the same for song file (FST) imports from older units like the MRS8? That is, import the series of patterns comprising the song file into one long/single R series drum pattern? If yes, even cooler than above. If no, you should add that! Again, it makes the unit much more friendly.

I ask because I'm now using an R24 for audio and MRS8 for the quick and easy F.A.S.T. drum data which I end up exporting to MIDI/DAW for better sound for final mixing. I'd like to be able to have the same data on the R series so I can avoid having to record it to wav as a scratch track. It would be nice to get some use out of the drum machine aside from the mentronome.

Thanks

PS: the ideal solution would still be for an R24 firmware "classic" download that would allow for a single dedicated stereo drum track and the use of F.A.S.T., or at least not force the use of the sequencer for non-drum pattern tracks, because that would make it closer to the glorified upgrade to the MRS8 that it could have been. That, coupled with drum data to MIDI export, would make life much simpler. I'm hoping the R8 has some changes that bring it closer to this.

Lee, the older Zoom recorders were able to playback SMF files (long Midi songs) and in addition (short) patterns. They were able to create sequences of patterns called songs. And include a programmable bass track in addition to the drum track in the pattern. There was no or a limited support for audio loops.

Audio loops replace more and more the old Midi pattern/songs.

The R-Series can not playback SMF files anymore, have no bass and no (pattern) song mode - but the features for loops/samples are much better than in older Zoom recorders.

So all left (Midi drum wise) is drum-patterns and these can be sequenced using the track sequencer.
R8 = max 8 drum pattern (one per track)
R24 = max 12 drum pattern (one per 2 tracks)

The patterns are not for complete songs but for guide rhythm tracks e.g.:
1) (I)ntro
2) (V)erse
3) (C)horus/solo
4) (E)nding

By this you need 4 tracks of the R8 to create a 'song' like this:
I-V-C-V-C-V-C-S-C-E

Then use the remaining 4 tracks for other instruments e.g. (Bass, Guitar1, Guitar2, Vocals)

In case you need more than 4 tracks for other instruments or more patterns for the drums - bounce the drums to two tracks - that leaves 6 tracks for other instruments.


The Zoom pattern have a theoretical limit of 99 measures - but the number of events is also limited so in case you use a lot of instruments you may run out of event after 4 or 8 measures - thats why the stock pattern have max 4 measures.

My pattern editor can create pattern of max 12 bars (for 12 bar blues).
So the longest Midi song would be 12bars * 8 tracks = 96 bars

But I thing this is not the way it should be used. The better way is to search for the patterns in a Midi song - like explained above (intro, chorus, verse, solo...) create some universal pattern with the PatternEditor Midi import and combine these basic patterns to many different full songs.

If you just want to playback a Midi song - why not convert it to audio and load this into the R8/R24 as stereo backing track? By this can you use other instruments in addition to the drums again.

I think that trend has slowed and may even reverse itself among songwriters and home musicians. I'll never use loops unless I record them myself because it's faster just to make the exact drum pattern I want vs. find it. Yes, I'm very particular when it comes to every part of a song (especially the drums because the "heart of rock-n-roll is the beatin'". Did I just quote Huey Lewis again? Dang! ).

I still don't know of a single R24 user who leverages that functionality in a productive manner and the R24 has been out for quite a while now. See my R24 vs. R8 drum machine posts in the R24 section for why I say that. Zoom has failed in this area. Hey, I hope you're not one of the people feeding them the bad advice to move in the direction they have? Lol... just bustin' on ya.

Yeah, isn't that a horrible? It reminds me of when I owned a Tascam 424 and was track poor and had to bounce to make more room. God forbid you want to go back and make changes... sheesh. It was nice to get an MRS8 and finally get away from that disaster. The worst part about the track sequencer approach is if you actually want to use a music file again (and thus, leverage the gist of the new "features") you're forced to use it from zero start position so it really limits what can be done with each track in terms of serially along a timeline, and thus, greatly under utilizes the resources. Again, one is forced to bounce and mix along the way to get the equivalent of what could be done in a simple and continuably editable manner in the classic Zoom recorders -- not good unless you really miss the analog 80s.

Yeah, I'll continue to keep it as F.A.S.T. data on the MRS8 and send an audio scratch track to the R24. The MIDI is going from MRS8 to PC so I don't have to double-work the drums (codekiddie supplied a free converter for that), and yes, I'm able to apply whatever sound I want to the MIDI once on PC. \

As usual, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to answer. You're a knowledgable guy... even if we disagree on the virtues of the R series and the direction Zoom recorders are going in.
Thanks Armin!

- Lee

PS: maybe I can rig my MRS8 (that I'm using as a drum machine) to trigger Start/Stop/Continue commands via it's MIDI out into the R24 in slave mode, lol. Guess I'll have to bust out the multi-meter... That would merely save me the time to port the drum audio to an R24 track and the need to re-do it if I modify the song structure along the way (add an intro, etc.). Ideally, I'd like to keep the PC part of the process down to setting the final drum sounds, minor editing/clean up, and final mixdown.

I ordered the pattern editor, no export. Anyone found a way to export all the hard work put into drum tracks ? I master on the included cubase and therefore wouldn't use the limited sounds of the units drum machine. What about firmware rev - Dump pattern to midi file ? Pretty easy ??

You can record the output of the pattern editor via Midi.

And there you have itzzzzz ,,, Pluged midi keyB, ran editor, loaded seq file, set midi to midimapper, pressed play, keyboard played seq file.
Didn't record it, ran out of time but should work.

Thanks armin, we just didn't understand.

Hi Armin,
Great product -Its really opened up the the drum side of the R24 for me - a big plus.

As a first step, is it possible to increase the length from 12 to 96 bars? (Assuming 99 is the max for an R24).
This would be great for "quick ideas for drums" work with a R24.

For instance, I found this site to download midi drum patterns.
http://www.fivepinpress.com/drum_patterns.htm
It would really open up another world for "hobbyist" types like myself, to be able to record using selectable song "Midi drum patterns" into an R24 with the appropriate Track sequence.
Even better would be separate WAV files for each part - to practise mixing like here
http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-intro.htm

Imagine a new user of an R24 goes to a site to download a mixed setup for a song. It gets loaded to an R24 so that it can at as a sort Karaoki for "real instument" players.
I mean - the drum setup, the track sequence, the wav files, even the singer wav file.

Can anyone do this?