Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

With most people I work with, we write, play and then take it into the studio, I learnt years ago when we as a band paid a ton of money to go into a studio that the technicians can often have very adverse affects on the final product and you end up sounding like they want, not what you want, Phil Collins as a producer is a classic example, so many artists he produces for sound like, you guessed it Phil Bloody Collins, he hi jacks the process and He is not the only one, as for the other issue, again Talent is subjective as I pointed out, playing piano in a gyroscope and singing is probably talented, whooppee doooooo, I'm sure Yehudi Menhuin and other great virtuoso's might just disagree with me though, The Gag is a showman of that there can be no denying but in 5 years who will give a rats arse, in 10 people will say Lady Gaga, who was that, dressing up in outrageous costumes and acting like a 50cent hooker is just MTV stuff, I personally prefer real talent, lasting enduring talent, Quality, but hey that's just my take on things and I'm sure many will disagree............

This reminds me of the Buddy Holly story. If you've seen the movie, he tried working with a producer or two and his take on it was that nobody he tried to work with could get the sound he was looking for. Only he himself could duplicate what he heard inside his head. It doesn't work like that for everybody, but there are some who just hear what they want in their heads and there's no other way to accept it.

JB

Hey Cale, I'm not disagreeing with you - I think Madonna or Gaga have nothing on others, but like it or not, they're pop stars and that's their schtick - more tenacity and pizzazz than content. I don't even own a Gaga album, but I guess I had very low expectations when she appeared on SNL.

There are still folks who do it the "old" way, but times, they are-a-changin - more acts are getting into the project studio thing and recording themselves - the whole recording, mixing, mastering process is no longer a purely technical step of the process anymore - it's becoming more and more creative.

The external producer and engineer(s) to get that "sound" is becoming irrelevant. There are still acts out there that do it, but it's becoming less and less common as musicians are getting more and more comfortable about recording equipment and the process.

Thanks for your feedback, very good indeed, I'm as you can see a bit of a musical snob, even though I give Mad donna etc the big stick I too have to acknowledge that you don't get to where they did without some ability, alright damn it, Talent, a young bloke said to me a while back, Cale your thinking their musicians, their not mate, their MTV stars and that's the difference, he was pretty much spot on, MTV isn't about music so much as the PACKAGE deal, lights and dancers and costumes and SEXUAL innuendo accompanied by a drum and bass beat, anyway back to the origins of this post, I just love the feats of musical daring do that amateurs pull of in a spareroom, as I say I've worked in Poons Head and Petrock here in Australia, Major multi million dollar facilities and you can make crusty the flippin clown sound like Pavroti in there,look at Kylie, Jesus she's Horrible but with a voice modulation unit, presto, you'd actually think she was really singing LOL oops there I go again, tee hee.........................

I don't know if you're just trying to be provocative but there is no way The Who could ever be thought of as "appalling". You might not like them but they were innovative, excellent musicians and wrote brilliant songs. They had one of the world's greatest rock drummers and bass players. They had a writer who constantly pushed the boundaries of what pop music was about in much the same way as The Beatles and Stones did. And let's not forget Mr Daltrey, the model for so many rock vocalists.

I was a 60s lad as well and I can think of a number of other groups who were very talented but The Who had every right to be at the top of the tree and to call them appalling is just nonsense.

It's also nonsense to dismiss Lady Gaga and such artists as talentless. They are aimed at a particular market and are very good at what they do. Once again, don't confuse the fact that because you don't like them then they must have no talent. Also you appear to think that home recordists are somehow more talented than the "processed" stars. Sure there are many genuinely talented musicians working from home for all sorts of reasons but we're not all undiscovered geniuses. We do however all enjoy what we're doing whether it be "good" or not. We're not fecking heroes though fighting the big bad corporate world. I've recorded in plenty of studios from crap to state of the art and when all's said and done the sound is always better in a studio where you have someone who knows how to work the knobs. You can be as creative as you want at home but unless you're a multi-talented genius and have some very good equipment you are never going to get a radio quality offering in your spare room.

You have every right to your opinions but try to explain why you believe a band is appalling or someone isn't talented rather than air what appear to be simple prejudices.

Cheers

Dick

IMHO, the kids are alright.

Apparently you didn't see what's left of them on the Super Bowl half time show.....

Can't be bothered to read through the whole thread again - just observing that you are not consistant with your examples ie. who will remember Gaga in a few years with the easy dismissal of the Who in the same post.

The Who get played a couple of times a night here on darn american cop shows and are in the credits everytime, so how long is it going to be before we forget them? And they were braw live performers.

Now I won't have that Cale, sexual innuendo is the basis of British comedy, if not the foundation of our entire culture!

And please stop putting down The Who. They're the only famous people I've ever run into

Yeah, and whatta 'bout dat article?
It twas pretty gooooood.

I actually tried to apply what I read/learned in the article to my latest song Sunny-G, found it very helpful, & actually found myself guilty of several of the things mentioned.....Did my best to correct 'em.....

Good find man, got any more???

These are good ideas and suggestions, and the wise person would at least consider them. On the other hand, one could make a list of the 10 Signs of Amateur Paintings and then look at the great artists of the 20th century, such as Pollack, Hopper, O'Keefe, Klee, Klimt, et al. I'll bet you that of the 10 Signs of Amateur Paintings, these folks would be guilty of at least half of them

Having said that, I guess there is something to be said for albums like Aja and Nightfly.

It shows!
There's more info there if you want and most of the articles make for a quick read. This website is still up, but it appears there is no new content since 2008 so when you've eaten all the info it has to offer you will probably have to look elsewhere for satiation.

Yeah. The suggestions about vocals are definitely something to follow.

Recording vocals is pretty tricky unless you are super even dynamic-wise.
And yeah, there's one individual who has pretty uneven vocal volume. It's kinda his style and a compressor would really help him out. Not sure if he ever makes it over here though...




Gad, I can't construct a sentence to save my life today....

I was skimming through the thread and saw references to The Who and Lady Gaga.

The Who are masters. Pete Townshend is an outstanding song writer. Unlike some, I love his solo work too.

Lady Gaga may not be everyone's cup of tea, and she certainly is not mine, but she is very talented. I do like her acoustic piano takes on her songs. It's very stripped down and rather nice. Whether she'll be around or remembered in any significant way in 10 or 20 years is anyone's guess. I would say she probably won't be regarded the same way Madonna is, but who can say? I mean, when it comes right down to it, there are only a handful of the immortals. I would say The Who are probably in that class.

Off the top of my head, the immortals, as I see it (not in any order). I consider an immortal anyone who significantly changed the course of rock and roll music or who had a major impact on a particular style:

Elvis
Chuck Berry
Little Richard
Johnny Cash
Buddy Holly
Bo Diddley
Jerry Lee Lewis
Bob Dylan
The Beach Boys
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
Jimi Hendrix
The Doors
Michael Jackson
The Who
Madonna
Elton John
David Bowie
Led Zeppelin
The Sex Pistols
The Ramones
Nirvana
U2

Just off the top of my head. Feel free to add your own. I'm sure this list is missing someone.

Yeah, not sure how that happened....