Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

Hi All
Can anyone suggest the best sequence to record drums. After recording in MTR mode, bass, guitars and vocal, I find the playback volume is too quite (via headphones) to put the drum track over and I lose time. The only other option I could think of was to record the drums first but this would require memorising the whole song?

Thanx for any ideas (solo artist).

Hi Drongo...welcome to the group...OK, even when I'm recording drums on their own, I always use a click track or metronome to play along too, just so I can transfer the audio files to my computer and DAW, and have them 'sync' up with tempo, and the rest of the instruments I plan to use in my project. That means you have to sort out the lack of volume in your headphones....It's the only way to go unless you can play drums on-command at any given tempo and stick with the beat religiously....and that is a big ask...even pro drummers would have their work cut out for them trying to match a tempo with no reference point.

So, there are a few ways to overcome the issues...one is, to 'normalize' your H4n tracks so they are at max volume...two, you can use 'noise-cancelling' ear buds that fit into your ear-canal...they have excellent isolational properties...three, you can transfer the H4n audio files to your computer and manipulate the volumes very easily with the built-in tools of your DAW...four, try and make your recording room as least as 'trashy' sounding as possible by reducing reflections....carpets and curtains will help reduce the overall volume of drums, so you will be able to hear a mix a little more easily from the phones/buds etc.,...and my last suggestion is....what kind of volume are you playing the drums at? If you are beating the 'shit' out of them, it's almost impossible to add 'accents', and very difficult to move around the kit quickly...plus, there will probably be very little 'headroom' left in your recorded tracks, so anything you do play quietly, will be well down in volume.

Ultimately, I don't know how loud you play your drums...these are only suggestions to remedy issues 'I've' had to overcome personaly....I use an R24 to rec my kit, with a H4n's built-in mics for the overheads plugged into the R24 inputs...that's eight tracks of audio...I have to have the R24's 'headphone out' level on max to hear the mix, over the natural sound from the drums, leaking through underneath the phones...the R24 does allow you to monitor the live drum sounds as you play, so that does alleviate the temptation to play louder than you think you need to...ultimately, It's a fine balance of volumes from all sources that will allow you to succeed...good luck with it, and let me know how you go!............sideshow bob

Thanx Sideshow for reply.
I'm new to recording but a seasoned musician.
I didn't understand a few things in your reply. Are you saying I can move my H4n tracks (other than drums) to DAW ( I have Cubase and Audacity), adjust their volumes, edit, etc and then move them back to H4n to record the drums? Also whats a R24 and how did you arrive at 8 audio tracks? How have you gone about recording your kit? eg mics , H4n. positioning.

Really appreciate any help.

Hi drongo...Yes you can do that with the audio files....
you could prepare a stereo mix of your track, and import that back into the H4n, using 4ch mode, you would have two tracks to mess with.....
an R24 is a new 'SD' card-based multitrack audio recorder from Zoom...it can record up to eight audio tracks at a time, and playback up to 24...I paid $700 for it 10 or so months ago...perfect for drummers...the R16 can also do this, but has 'less' phantom power options, and less tracks(16)...
as far as rec'ing my kit, I have a 'Shure' mic package that takes care of the snare, kick and hi-toms 1+2 with their 'stupid' drum mounts...and a cpl of AKG D880 dynamics for the low-toms 3+4...
I use the H4n for 'overheads' mounted on a tripod at the height of the cymbals inline with the edges...personally, I like the cymbal sound I get, but how I do it, is not the normally accepted method....
really, I'm no expert when it comes to recording drums..I've only got two songs under my belt with real drums...and I rebuild the rec'ing sequence after every project, just to refine my technique with the stuff I learn listening to my own tracks....
I guess, the biggest advance I discovered, was to 'gate' every track in post processing..to gain some kind of control over 'spill' amongst all the mics...to listen to a 'gated' single drum track by itself, doesn't sound very musical at all...but when you play all the gated tracks together, the 'left-over spill' fills in all the apparent 'missing' detail! Very spooky....good luck with your stuff...can't wait to hear some...sideshow bob

Thanx Sideshow - I'll have a gecko at that other zoom recorder. Just one more question re H4n -once you have edited in a DAW, what command is it or what is the process to move tracks back onto the unit and where do they get placed?
Ooops guess thats two questions. Hows Eyre Pen? Did some work on the Investigator Group some years back.

Hi Drongo...you did some work on the investigator group...like building or something? Awesome! Yeah..Eyre Pen's moving along nicely..still haven't got our first set of 'traffic lights' or 'parking meters' yet, so it can't be all bad!'''

OK, the H4n...it would take volumes of writing to describe every little process involved in getting tracks back on the H4n, but, as complicated as it sounds, it's relatively easy once you understand just what's going on when you connect up via usb...

alright, you probably know that to transfer files back and forth from H4n to PC, you must connect the h4n in 'storage' mode instead of usb audio interface(page 35 of operation manual)...if you achieve this successfully, the PC will show a page where the contents of the card in the H4n is displayed..

you may have to click on 'audio' to display actual files contained on the card...now you have the files that are stored on the H4n SD card in front of you...if you haven't bothered to change the names of those files to something you recognize, then things will get mighty confusing..if you didn't do it on the H4n,(page 109 H4n operation manual...be aware that 4ch mode recording files cannot be changed in the H4n) you can change the names of the files to something more recognizable, on the page/folder displayed on your PC...

now, separately, while leaving the H4n folder menu still displayed in front of you, you must open the folder where you have stored the files on your PC, that you want to transfer back to the H4n...again, good file naming/storing habits will pay dividends here, especially when it comes to 'finding' and 'identifying' the files you want to transfer...

assuming you have found the folder where you have stored the files on your PC, open that folder right next to the H4n folder...it's then just a simple matter of 'copy and paste' (or 'cut' and paste if you don't want copies of the originals) the files from the PC folder to the H4n folder...

when that is completed, you will have the files you want to transfer to the H4n, actually on the H4n SD card...then, the files are directed by you to the folders in the H4n where you want them...stereo/MTR/4ch etc...then you can access the files you have transferred, to place them in the 'project' you are working on...

all this sounds rather complicated, and if you haven't got huge experience with computers, then this will be a hair tearing experience! Practice makes perfect though...experiment with non-important audio files...sending and recieving them via usb...and what appears to be a huge task, can be performed almost mindlessly in a few moments with experience...

see how you go with this lot...I have no idea what you are going to understand, or mis-understand from this dialogue, so let me know how far you got, and wether I'm helping or hindering you. Sometimes a search of 'Google' videos can show up promising tutorials that are far more easily understood than the reams of information available on forums....

Good luck bro! Stay in touch!...sideshow bob

Thanx Sideshow - good info and will now delve into the world of the tech head!!