Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

Hi Chris,

I've been offline with computer problems for a few days, but everything is fixed now.

Audacity raw mode parameters:

When opening an audio file using Audacity raw mode, the raw parameters should agree with the H4n recording parameters. I'm assuming that your recording was made with 24-bit samples, 96 kHz sample rate, like you mentioned in an earlier post.

A stereo .wav file interleaves the samples for the left and right channels. The raw software has to be told how big each sample is, to know where to pick out the left and right channel samples. The only choices that make sense for the H4n are signed 16-bit PCM (for 16-bit samples) and signed 24-bit PCM (for 24-bit samples). All of the other choices for the first raw mode parameter are for audio formats that the H4n does not support.

The big or little endian choice is meaningful if the audio samples are bigger than eight bits (which is one byte), so it will always be meaningful for H4n recordings which are two or three bytes per sample. Little-endian means the audio samples appear in the file least-significant byte first, big-endian means most-significant byte first. For .wav files you would always use little-endian, because that's the standard for .wav files.

As far as the number of channels, you would need to pick stereo, so the raw software knows that the samples alternate between left and right channel.

Offset is somewhat important, because this will determine how the raw software syncs up with the audio data in the file. I think the H4n has a .wav file header that is 910 bytes long, so an offset of 910 ought to point the raw software at the very first byte of the audio data. But you can try varying this parameter with values of 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The reason for these values is that a single piece of audio data in the file will be six bytes, three bytes (24 bits) of left channel, and three bytes (24 bits) of right channel. So once you vary the offset from 0 to 5, you will have covered all the possible alignments for the audio samples. This assumes you were using 24-bit samples. If you were using 16-bit samples, they are two bytes each so the parameter could be 0, 1, 2, 3.

Sample rate can be any number, but it should match the H4n recording sample rate, otherwise the audio in Audacity will play too slow or too fast.

SD card problems:

It's possible that the card might be bad after a certain point; that can happen. Also, I'll mention a couple other things:

Once you have a corrupted file on a memory card, all bets are off for subsequent recordings using the same card, unless you reformat the card in the H4n. The reason is that the file wasn't closed properly, so the FAT32 file system on the card is corrupted and compromised. You might be able to record more files without reformatting the card, but then again, you might not. Since you can't be sure, you should save any existing files on the card by copying them to your PC, then reformat the card in the H4n to rebuild the file system.

When you record in stereo at 96 kHz / 24-bit samples, this is as fast as the H4n can go, and it will write 576,000 bytes of data to the memory card every second (96000 * 2 channels * 3 bytes/sample). A very low price card might not be fast enough to handle this, since memory cards are like CPU chips or computer memory - the faster the device, the more expensive it is. You could get a faster card, or you might consider recording at lower speeds, like 44.1 kHz / 16-bit samples. This will also make the card last longer during recording sessions, without much loss of quality.

- John Santic

I had the same problem with *.wav files with H2. I have a fix with you can see in my post "No joy..." dated Feb 22.
I think that the explanation re header information is correct. My "solution" seems to fix it simply (I think).

daqddyo1

Hello,

I am new on the forum. Soory for my english. I use to live in Paris and i guess you can help me. I have recorded a voice for for a short movie (voice over) with the zoom H4. I have listen to it many times and when i have connected to my mac, the files had desappeard. I have recorded in 24bits 96 khz on imput 1 in foor track mode. In proj000 there is TRK1-00 (96ko) and TRK3-00 (64ko). I have tried several software to recover deleted files but without succes. The sd card used is 2gb.
I think some person on this forum have competences that i have not (johnsantic for ex). If somebody can help me to find the solution i promise to send very good french wine (if i have the right) and something else if not.
The voice of the girl on the reording was wonderful and i am affraid not to be able to do it again. The project is very very important for me and i am quite desperate and surpised that files cans “desappear” in such a way. Maybe, my battery went down but it was just by reading the file and not recording it. The recording was safe before. I have listen to it (about 30 min) several times.
Many thanks !!!!

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

It's strange that people are having files disappear. I have not had this problem and don't have a solution. However, other people have posted some possible solutions, especially when the files disappear after connecting to a Mac.

Check out these posts:

The post from Mark McPherson at the end of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14384

The post from Mark McPherson in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12937&view=previous

- John Santic

Thanks a lot Johnsantic ! I try to do what is written and i let you know the result. Thanks ones again !
Pierre

Hey John sorry i havent posted an update for a while on here. Just been busy. I have been using the H4n trouble free with my original 4 gb card. No dropouts or static. so I assme it was the 16gb card although I would like to test it again. Maybe it does pay to buy an authentic card rather than an a Hong kong copy. The guy said he would issue a rebate but that his cards havent had this issue. I'm gonna also try to use the card with just regular data and see if it works.

Hi Chris,

I'm glad you're back in business, that's a good thing! Thanks for following up.

John

Hi Every body , I just joined this forum , Used to be a Studio Rat , I am a Guitar Repair guy and do a LOT of recording .
That said , I just wanted to correct ( Not offend ) John about something , The SD card isnt formatted in FAT32 , It SHOULd be ( have NO IDEA why Zoom would use FAT16 this late in the game ) but it is FAT16 ----->>> Therein is a part of a lot of the problems I am reading about .
FAT16 file size limitations , do not lend well to LONg recordings at Hi Resolution , MP3 , or 16 Bit 48 , yeah , but 24 bit should be kept short , to prevent fragmentation and allocation problems . FAT16 is 16 byte sectors FAT32 is 32 byte sectors and is therefore More capable of dealing with 24 bit Audio (More room for it in each sector ) with 16 bit recording your using each sector to it full capacity .so no fragmentation but at 24 bit it now has to allocate extra room for each portion of audio data

Also the Speed of the Card there are several Classes of SD cards
Class 2
Class 4
Class 6
Class 8
Class 10

each being faster data rate than the other , for the Zoom H4n I wouldnt recommend anything less than a Class 6 card especially for MTR mode
At Class 6 , 24 Bit recording at 20 minute sections would probably be ok ..... more than that is iffy .

just my 2 cents , as a semi pro in the Mixing room ( I love a big board )

Also for anyone who owns the H2 and might be interested I build a small Mic pre in a Metal enclosure
Specs = 88 db S/N - Fixed 26 db gain - TRS Stereo in and Out ( or I can Make XLR in and TRS out ) but not with Phantom Power
The preamp is portable and is 9 volt battery powered

That means : AKG C1000s =OK ( has its own battery ) Audio Technica AT822 =OK Battery powered , etc

Any self powered Mic , Stereo Mic , or Matched Pair of Self Powered condensers will benefit GREATLY

Here is how I run it , AT9943 -> My Preamp -> Mic input of the Tascam DR07 ( Mic setting LOW , Limiter ON , Rec Level down to wherever I need it )

Almost ALL MTR digital recorders have Crappy inputs , that is why I built the preamp , ANY 4 Track or or Digital MTR could use this , and a LOT of portable Recorders NEED it .

I can supply audio samples if any are needed with full description .
My Mic pres run about 150 US for the Basic version ( Parts alone cost me 90 , then my time of building it , and they are Hand built )
XLR version 200 .

Once I get some extra time I will try to make an 18 volt Phantom powered version

Nice to meet everybody

Hi AxFixer,

Thanks for the info, that was a good catch, but it turns out there is more to the story.

I did an experiment and this is what I came up with. When I used the 1 gig SD card that came with the unit, the H4n formatted the card as FAT16. I used a couple of PC programs to look at the "disk" on the SD memory card. This is the report from chkdsk:


When I use Paragon Drive Backup (a disk imaging program) to look at the "disk", this is what it said:


The other memory card that I normally use is a 4 gig SDHC, and this is what the programs said about that "disk":


Paragon Drive Backup:


So it seems that the H4n uses FAT16 format for small cards and FAT32 format for big cards - why, I don't know. In theory, even FAT16 supports files up to 4 gig, though such a big file wouldn't fit on a small 2 gig SD card (due to space taken by overhead information on the card, like the folders and file directory). Stratguy (Chris) was having the most problems, and he was using a big SDHC card, but it turned out the weird problems were mostly due to the card itself having problems. When he used another big card, the problems went away. Personally, I don't trust a lot of those cheap big SDHC cards so I never use them.

Here is a link to a Wikipedia article about FAT16 and FAT32: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_allocation_table
Here is a link to a Wikipedia article about SD cards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_card

- John Santic

Hey John , Cool that you took that the right way , and the Updated info is true , The 4 gig Plus card SDHC get a Fat32 treatment

So I guess that restates the 16 bit -24 bit issue in a new light .

Bad card indeed for the previous poster ...... Cheap cards , You get what you pay for .

Plus you gave me another Idea , a thought for all to consider , Since it is both FAT16 and FAT 32 ....... Using a USB card reader you could use the Defragmenter built into the Windows OS to keep the card in order ,As that there isn't a Defragger in the Zoom

I am on a Macbook Pro C2D ,so I don't have that privilege of Defragging

But a way to Keep your cards in Shape !!!

Defragging a modern Flash memory isn't really useful -- the cards already remap "sectors" to distribute write cycles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Memory_wear

I will agreed that it isnt a HDD per se ,..... and that the WIKI has a different Idea than I might , But look at Johns Data , He ran TWO different programs , note that in each prog the " Space Available" and "Total Space" info is different in each program ..... They then act just like a drive ,( Case in point your HDD on your computer , Buy a 320 GB drive , Completely empty , put it in a USB box and scan it , The Buffer area akes up a fair amount of room , and that 320 will come out to more likely be 298 GB - 20 GB missing ->>>>> yet under another prog it may show all the disc . ) On a Mac we dont have a " Defrag " system but a Repair Permssions , and Verify Permissions , Mac is also able to format a disc in several flavors , UNIX , MS DOS , Mac Classic , Mac OS , Extended , Journaled , etc , so I had an SD Card that wouldn't work at all in my Camera or my MP3 Player ( Cowon D2TV) , I put it in a Reader , used Disc utility . it read as MS DOS , so I erased it and used the MS DOS settings , then repaired permissions , put it in my MP3 player , It read it asked to format it , and has been working fine ever since . The Mac Version of Defragging

So ........ That being said , Having an Idea to TRY something different ,when whatever your doing at the moment isn't working doesn't rely on Wiki .

I have in fact bought several Used SD cards and got them to work when they werent quite agreeable ...... so for you , maybe Defrag might not be a good idea .
But it most certainly worked for me .

just my 2 cents.

I need some (serious and will be much appreciated) help. I recorded a very important choral concert this past weekend using my H4n. Everything recorded correctly. One request was to create a CD on site (as a gift). I checked over the several STE files, all ok. One of them was too long to record to a CD. So I used the divide feature. As expected, 2 - STE files were created from the single (STE-001.WMA) file and appeared on the menu as STE-001A.WMA and STE-001B.WMA. The first (A) file is fine and plays as it should. The second (B) file comes up as Invalid File. Looking at Property Details, there is no Length or Bit Rate shown. In my haste, I goofed and didn't make a copy of the original STE-001.WMA file which now also comes up as Invalid File.

Again, appreciate (in advance) any help because as Murphy's Law would have it, that second file has the most important data on it.

One repair program I tried mentions it was expecting a Riff Header. I know what that means, but have no idea how to make it happen or if it's even possible. I haven't found any "fixer" programs that seem to be able to open this (bad) file. Most don't even recognize it.

Rgds,
Ed

Search for RIFF on this forum. There was a post about it just yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15146

Ken.

I encountered this "Invalid Files" issue and some of the comments you guys posted helped me out. I will tell you what happened in my case, and how I fixed this issue using Adobe Audition 3.0.

I had a .wav file that the audio was really low on, so I wanted to normalize and/or compress it. But, Audition would not read it when I transferred it to my PC (I didn't know why). Ironically, double-clicking it, windows media player would play it, so I knew there was a way to get at it, and I didn't just write it off as corrupted beyond fixing.

In Adobe Audition,
1. click the File meny and select "Open As"
2. Use "PCM Raw Data (*.pcm; *.raw)
3. Because the file is .wav and the Open Dialog used .pcm and .raw as file extensions, change "Filename" to "*" so you can se all files in the directir (but this will still open the file as raw). If you tried to change the "Save as" dialog File type to .wav, it will even tell you that:



4. Select the .wav file you want to import

5. In the "Open File (s) As" dialog, select the parameters you need to use:



When it tries to read the file, it displays this dialog:



6. I simply press "OK", without changing anything.

Voila! I now have my file!

Hope this helps someone

I had almost a similar issue but I think it relates to software/hardware of the H4n. My H4n was swiped off the PC desk by mistake and it dropped abt 2 ft on a thick carpet so it suffers no external damage. However something inside was not right that I didn't know until yesterday.

Before it was dropped, it was set up for WAV recording mode at 44.1/16 bit. After that incident I used it to record in that mode and it was fine (it was dropped 3 days ago). Yesterday I tried to change the mode to higher quality and tried MP3 mode when I found out that my H4n was stuck at the previous setting. I can't change it! Only 2 items are available when I select 'Record' under 'Menu' are 'Auto Rec' and 'File Name'... and when I tried to play the MP3 files recorded by H4n stored in the SD card, I got 'Invalid File'. I tried to reset the H4n back to factory settings, re-install the latest version (1.72) to no avail. My H4n worked perfectly before it was dropped.

Right now it just works as a recorder in Wave mode (44.1/16 bits) - nothing else. At least it is not a total lost.

I tried to contact ZOOM but they defer me to Samson so I wrote them and am waiting for their response.

I appreciate any help/suggestion the forum can offer.

Hi bonoki,

Open up the battery compartment and check the switch for Stamina mode. Perhaps this switch was affected when the H4n dropped. If stamina mode is enabled, the unit only operates in 44.1 kHz / 16-bit mode and other modes are disabled, as a power saving feature.

- John Santic