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In the return to your home songwriting paradise I am really super double pleased to have an interview with Pat Pattison, lyric writing eductation superstar. You all know I love his books and many of you do also so it was a real pleasure to secure and complete this interview.

Check out the very interesting site at http://www.patpattison.com

We also play some songs:

David Cooper - Kings of Rock and Roll

Pat Pattison and Greg Barnhill - Leave My Like Alone (see Pat's Site for lyrics and other songs)

Songwriting Workshop - Tom Smith http://www.tomsmithonline.com

David Cooper - Kings of Rock and Roll
Great tune to open the show. Sounds great.

Great interview with Pat Pattison. Good stuff.

Also an appropriate ending song.

I also predict that you will post the following words:
"It's a 30+ minute show and you posted a review 25 minutes after I posted the link was updated"

So lets get this straight. It's a 30+ minute show and you posted a review 25 minutes after I posted the link was updated



I ACCUSE you of being a FAST FORWARD user.

I live in a different time zone. I listened to it an hour before you posted it.

Great show with Mr. Pattison. Although I never thought about songwriting in quite the same way that he does, I agree with many of the things he talked about. I agree that it is very important for each verse to be better (or more interesting) than the previous. I do that with the music too. I think each part of the song should introduce something new to the listener and continually build until the end (which yes, should be the best). I also was glad to hear his point about the music and lyrics complimenting each other. I think of lyrics as a part of the whole song just as a piano part or drums would be. They need to flow well and follow the feel and rhythm of the song. Pat's song was great but the last one by Tom Smith had me laughing out loud.

Right after I listened to this show I turned on the oldies radio station just in time to hear some of the worst lyrics I've ever heard in a pop or rock song. Apparently by Bobby Rydell "I'm going to swingin' school - Where the chicks are kicks and the cats are cool..." Hmmm. Now there is a song to analyze. This might be why I don't listen to much 50's music. Of course, every decade has had it's clunkers.

What a great idea for an interview Tony - thanks for setting this up!

Dave Cooper - gettin' down with it as usual man! Nice tune, nice hook - like the vocal effect in the first verse off to the left. Very organic sound in there - like you were jamming with yourself on all the parts.

The (actually, for real) famous Pat interview! I actually went out and bought/downloaded John Mayer's Live in LA disc after this interview. Hadn't really given him much attention until listening to Pat talk about him.

I see that a quote from John is on Pat's site - didn't John once mention that one of his hit songs was given a failing mark back at Berkley? Wonder if that was Pat or someone else?

Thought Pat had some GREAT insights - loved the attitude and angle he brings to writing lyrics. Seems almost common sense the stuff he's talking about, but, hey, common sense is sometimes not so common huh? I did find it a bit annoying that some questions he answered with "the exercises in chapter X..." or "it's in chapter X in the book..." - would have liked a bit more insight into what that's all about...

Loved Pats song " Leave My Like Alone " - I was laughing out loud at this!

Tom Smith's tune was quite the hoot! Reminded me of Robbie Fulks "Fountains of Wayne Hotline" where he calls up the hotline and asks for tips on how to piece a tune together throughout the song... classic.

Looking forward to next week!

D

David Cooper - Kings of Rock and Roll - Nice one. I can hear David Bowie doing this one for some reason.

Dang, HMHS scores a big interview. Good job.

Ah, the show is now offically a "home songwriting" focus. Cool. I'm getting back to work with my focus totally on songwriting. I'll bang two rocks together if needs be.

And a good idea without tools is just a blank piece of paper blowing away on the wind.

Oh, that's interesting. Using different rhymes to support particular moods in songs.

Writing is opening a can of worms. Nothing stays the same.

Boston - great American city.

I never had a band. I have one now. But it's just me.

Nice little living you've nitched out for yourself, Pat.

"A little bit of magic and a lot of sweat" - good one.

Pat Pattison and Greg Barnhill - Leave My Like Alone (see Pat's Site for lyrics and other songs) - Cool bluesy, lazy river sound. A bit of a novelty song, but I have no nits as it is very well done.

Yes, a comedy song and yes, you did not abandon your tools. A well written song. Relistening to parts of song to pick up that non-rhyming "i" last lyric. Yes, I hear that. That's so good.
Ah, yes, nice twist on use of word "like" in verses vs. chorus. I can see this would be a very valuable teaching tools.

Find a metaphor a day. Another great tip.

Dang - another one: Information and inspiration.

Does this guy teach?

Good one, Pat. Shadows and rats. I was thinking city alley more than sewer, but point well taken.

Good interview. New high mark for the HMHS.

I like Pat's "in my opinion, right now". Man, that can keep you out of a lot of hot water. I'm going to start using that in arguments, debates, etc.

Songwriting Workshop - Tom Smith - This is very clever and well done. Darned informative too.

Great show.

I found this show really interesting, Pat Pattison is obviously a master of the art of lyric construction. I went straight to his site and was drawn in immediately.

I loved the song 'Leave My Like Alone', the lyrics and the whole 'arc' of the song.
I too hate the use of like and my youngest daughter and I are in a constant, like, teasing battle about it.
Pat has a really good voice and the song is beautifully constructed. I'm beginning to hate him now...

The last song on the show, 'Songwriting Workshop', was great fun and I'm betting that was incredibly difficult to sing as well as write. The whole putting the emphasis in the wrong place and deliberately running lines on and on over the music is something I find very hard to do. The music itself demands the lyrics to be in a certain place and I really have to fight the compulsion to meter them 'correctly'. So I believe it requires even greater musicianship to be able to wilfully break those rules, particularly live. Does anyone remember Arlo Guthrie and the 'Alice's Restaurant' song? Have you ever tried to replicate that rag and then talk smoothly over it as you play? Well I have and I always end up screwing it up, by locking on to the rag emphasis as I tell the story.

Finally, I thought Dave Cooper's song was excellent too, quite involved and plenty of textures to keep the interest. From memory Dave's previous tracks on HMHS have been less busy in terms of the number of parts and so this was an interesting variation. I thought it all fitted together really well.

Going back to the lyrics advice, one of Pat's courses was about writing a song from a strong title. I have to say I never start a song from the title and so this is a bit of a revelation for me . I always write the song and then look through the song for the theme and the snippet of words that really captures that. It's an interesting reversal to start from a title and I'll have to give it a go sometime. This could be another HMHS competition challenge , give us a strong title and we submit the song underneath it. Better still, get Pat to submit the title and judge the competition... could be scary...

I did like his advice about the song having an 'arc' to it, essentially that the song should develop in some way throughout. The most interesting songs are ones that 'go somewhere', so that something is resolved in the telling. It's what makes you stick with the lyrics till the end.

Another gem was the 'don't say it all in the first verse'.
I find one useful way to hold back on blurting out my song's 'arc' is to allow myself only one line per verse to move the 'arc', or central message, on. That way the listener is piecing it together throughout the song and only really get's it at the end, when the arc is resolved.
Before anyone asks, the rest of the lines 'paint scenery' around those resolving lines.

Anyway, as ever an interesting listen...

That was, like, a really good show. Like, keep up the good work.

Very interesting show. I've heard it once, but will have to listen another couple of times to get all of it.

I haven't been very interested in the theory before, mostly because I know my own reading habits - wouldn't get past page 20. But this makes the whole thing much more interesting. I might actually have a go at one of his online courses.

You might want to try the book route first before diving in with your dollars (Euros, gold coins, whatever).

Great show. I really enjoyed it and was impressed by Pat Pattison. I believe I'll be ordering his book this evening. Thanks!

David Cooper - Kings of Rock and Roll: Very enjoyable, good lyrics and tune. I might suggest trying to get a bit more punch in the mix, but very well done.

Worksheets: I agree, a good place to just get some ideas down, even if you don't use them. It eliminates the "blank page" fear syndrome.

Good quote: 90% of what you write is not your best 10%. Perfect.

Berklee Courses: Ka-CHING!

Zoetropes question: Great one! Got him a little out of his comfort zone there.

Pat Pattison and Greg Barnhill - Leave My Like Alone: Loved the song, and well performed and recorded. I used to think that using anything but perfect rhymes was lazy, but now I see how using family rhymes and others really opens up the possibilities of the song.

FP's metaphor question: At first, I was a little off-put by his RTFM comment, but then when he talked about daily commitment to the process I felt a little better. I can see that my problem has been not fully committing to improving my technique on metaphors.

Songwriting Workshop - Tom Smith: Another great tune, well recorded. It's always fun to poke the pompous.

Tony: I give you credit for doing an actual interview - I trust that you weren't injured in the process. I think Pat's got a lot to offer, especially his first name. I wish I had unlimited funds; I would love to try the online course. I just can't justify it.

Loved the tunes, the interview and the show. Looking forward to tonight's.

Ha! I think he almost blew out an earlobe and his dialing finger was badly sprained.
Tony did somehow survive a live interview. He is a brave man, our Butters.

He actually was a bit nervous before it started, I believe. Turned out well!

Dave

Great show!

I've slacked off a bit on the posting, easing up on the blistering two-in-a-row pace I set a while back. I've actually fallen behind on listening to the shows, too. Not for lack of love, be assured! More the lack of sleep...

Anyhow, I really enjoyed the interview. And I'm planning on buying "Writing Better Lyrics" now (expect your bountiful commission check soon). I've always enjoyed your discussions of his book and techniques, but somehow hearing it laid out in a bit more context made me really think I've got to get on board this gravy train...

And some excellent tunes to start and end the show. Couldn't have chosen a better closer than "Songwriting School." Very witty!

Jacob

Hi everybody

Thanks for playing my song "Kings of Rock and Roll"

Enjoyed interview, some interesting things to ponder on.

Like last song, "Song writing partnership", very apt for the show.